Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren and The F-Word (part 5)

Before I move on to the verse that the Pastor of Discovery Church suggested is the way a person obtains salvation, being Romans 10:13. You cannot miss the fact the audience of chapter 9 is none other than unbelieving Israel who had missed their Messiah. Paul addresses them as his kinsmen in the flesh, Israelites to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises. Don't let any of that be wasted on you especially the "covenants" and the "giving of the law". Israel is NEVER separated from the covenant relationship with God, neither are they separated from the law program. New or Old, both covenants contain the law and are for Israel.
Moving into chapter 10 of Romans, Paul continues dealing directly to Israel's situation in having missed their Messiah saying that his hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they might be saved. Paul speaks to their situation several times quoting Old Testament prophets such as Isaiah, Hosea and Moses with the language that they would be familiar. We come to Romans 10:9-10. the subject is confession, and once again this is Israel's issue and language as we see in the following verses:

• John 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue.
• John 12:42 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also many believed on him; but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue:
• Luke 12:8 Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:
• Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Clearly, the issue is confessing Jesus as Israel's Messiah and nothing at all with the Gospel of the grace of God which is trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ as full and complete payment for all of your sins. To make it even clearer, 6 chapters after Mathew 10 in chapter 16 is the first time mentioned anything about his crucifixion and their response was:

• Matthew 16:22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

Apparently, Peter did not know the gospel that was going to be given to Paul because the gospel of the grace of of God IS the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ! So in the OT books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John, confession would have nothing to do with trusting Christ's payment for sins, rather, the issue is Christ being Israel's Messiah.

So, now we have summed up 33 verses of Romans 9, 12 verses of Romans 10, a total of 45 verses in which the Apostle Paul is pouring his heart out over his kinsmen in the flesh pertaining to their situation in missing their Messiah, not one single mention of the gospel of the grace of God, not even a hint of information that was "kept secret since the world began", but only that which was "spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began", not one mention of the church, the body of Christ. And now we come to verse 13 of Romans 10.

• Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

For what possible reason would you believe that the Apostle Paul ended his conversation with the audience in view, Israel, and has turned to presenting the gospel of the grace of God? Has Paul presented anywhere in Romans 9 or 10 that Christ died for their sins, was buried and that He rose again the 3rd day according to the scriptures and they need to place their faith in what Christ has done which constitutes the gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation? Or could it be Paul is still speaking to Israel concerning their situation and their language with the material they would be familiar? These are questions which demand a DUH response. The gospel which saves our never dying soul in this dispensation of the grace of God has not been presented and what Paul is doing is consistent with the previous 45 verses in that he is speaking to unbelieving Israel concerning their Messiah and their situation by quoting the OT prophet Joel in:

• Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

Once again, we see the Apostle to the circumcision, Peter, quoting the same verse in:

• Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
• Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Joel wasn't presenting the Gospel of Christ, Peter was presenting the Gospel of the grace of God, so what were they talking about? let's see it in the verses between Acts 2:16 and 32.

• Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
• Acts 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
• Acts 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
• Acts 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:
• Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Does the word "tribulation" ring a bell at this point? The time of Jacob's trouble? Certainly you do not have in your belief system that the church, the body of Christ is a partaker of Israel's tribulation period or do you? Let's move on and wrap this up at looking at the verses concluding chapter 10 of Romans.

• Romans 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
• Romans 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
• Romans 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
• Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
• Romans 10:18 But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world.
• Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you.
• Romans 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me.
• Romans 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

Verses 14 and 15: Paul quotes Isaiah 52 with the information concerning and familiar to Israel.

Verse 16: Paul quotes Isaiah 53 once again with the information concerning Israel and familiar to them concerning the suffering of their Messiah and His seed which is none other than Israel.

Verse 17: The emphasis is the truth pertaining to the scriptures, the Bible is the absolute truth and the source of everything we know about God.

Verse 18: Paul quotes Psalms 19:4 which pertains to the remnant of Israel.

Verse 19: Paul quotes Deuteronomy 32:21 about a foolish nation which is Peter's little flock of Luke 12:32.

Verses 20 and 21: Once again the Apostle Paul speaks to Israel alone concerning their fallen situation and not a single word of any revelation of a mystery but only that which was spoken by a previous prophet.

Do you see the problem with determining Romans 10:13 is the plan of salvation for anyone today as we operate according to the "my gospel" of the apostle Paul which was kept secret since the world began?

• Romans 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,
• Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
• Colossians 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
• Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

The problem is the failure to rightly divide the word of truth. All of the Bible is truth, but it also requires to be rightly divided, truth from truth. What is true for one group is not necessarily true for another. The right division is clearly Israel under the law from the church, the body of Christ which is not under the law but under grace. The right division is clearly that which was spoken by all the holy prophets SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN from that which was kept secret SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN. That would constitute rightly dividing prophecy from mystery.

To conclude this post I want to emphasize the importance of getting your Bible right, rightly divided of course, your never dying soul is relying on it. Believing in Jesus will not get you to heaven. Calling on the Lord will not get you to heaven. Following Jesus footsteps or following the information and doctrines of the Old Testament which on the authority of Hebrews 9:15-17 includes Mathew, Mark, Luke and John will not get you to heaven. Being someone that thinks love is the answer for everything will not get you to heaven. Confessing your sins, asking God to forgive you, asking Jesus in your heart, being a God chaser or God stalker (whatever that goofy junk means) will not get you to heaven. Confessing with your mouth will not get you to heaven. Commandment keeping, tithing, getting dunked in a tub of water will not get you to heaven.

Trusting the Gospel WILL get you to heaven!

• 1 Corinthians 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
• 1 Corinthians 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

Notice the nomenclature....ARE SAVED...not,,,thou shalt be saved...one is present, the other is yet and still future. So what is this gospel by which we ARE saved?

• 1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
• 1 Corinthians 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

There it is! Christ did everything necessary to save our miserable worthy of Hell souls. HE died for your sins. HE was buried. HE rose again the 3rd day. That is the Gospel of YOUR salvation. NOT confession,,,NOT calling on the Lord,,,,,NOT keeping the commandments,,,,NOT asking Jesus in your heart...NOT making Jesus Lord of your life....and so on....

Your response to the Gospel if either believe and trust or reject it. Rejecting it is not only unbelief in the Gospel, it includes the belief there are other things necessary to seal the deal such as ....Calling on the name of the Lord and thou shalt be saved....Confessing your sins and asking God to forgive you.....getting baptized,,,commandment keeping,,,,repenting of your sins (whatever that means since repent actually means to have a change of mind and is not turning from your sins) Confessing with your mouth and so on and so on. Anything you think you have to do to seal the deal is exactly what will send you to Hell because if you think what Christ did was not sufficient then you are not trusting what Christ did...period. You are saved by Grace through Faith,,,,what does Ephesians 2:8-9 say?

• Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

And that NOT of yourselves, it is a what of God? A Gift!

• Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Have you ever noticed how folks who claim to be saved always boast of how they were saved by the list of works THEY did without as a mention of what Christ did or what Christ did is way down the list after the likes of "I repented of my sins" or "I asked Jesus in my heart" or "I called on the name of the Lord" or "I love Jesus with all my heart" responses.

You have heard the Gospel of YOUR salvation in 1ST Corinthians 15:1-4, your response should line up with Ephesians 1:13.

• Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

If the sentence structure is too difficult, read it backwards. You were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise...after that you believed....the gospel of YOUR salvation,,,which you got from the word of truth,,,

Sounds too easy doesn't it? If it is so easy, why are you finding it so difficult? Ponder that until next time and I will try to conclude this look into the perverted teaching which is mainstream in practically ever church you will find in your phonebook. Discovery Church is not the only assembly which fails to "rightly divide" the word of truth, it just happens to be one in my particular area. It is not about persons or personalities and was never intended to be taken personally. It has been from the outset about......the doctrine.

Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren and The F-Word (part 4)

The last post on this response to the post on Pastor Jason''s blog dealing with the topic of forgiveness, the pastor showed his hand in saying and referring to Romans 10:13 as to how a soul is saved. I left off in part 3 of my commentary demonstrating the intended audience, beginning in Romans 9 is not anyone that has been alive for about 2000 years, instead was directed to stumbling, falling, blinded Israel. Today, the stumbling and falling is completed and is not taking place, rather, Israel has fallen and has no standing. Last time, I demonstrated every verse in Romans 9 has Israel's address on it as well as Romans 10 up to and including verse 5. Why would anyone think the Apostle Paul would shift gears in the next few verses and begin dealing with the church, the body of Christ at this point?

• Romans 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)
• Romans 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
• Romans 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

Did you see the issue being presented to Israel? Is the gospel of the grace of God being presented anywhere in the scriptures from Romans 9:1 to this point? No, the issue for Israel is faith and accepting their Messiah, Jesus Christ as it was pointed out in the previous chapter in verses 29- 32.

• Romans 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Is the issue being discussed the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as a substitutionary atonement or propitiatory sacrifice? or is the issue the personage of Jesus Christ? The matter of confession is always Israel's issue and language. In the OT book of Mathew we see Jesus sending his men only to Israel and not to Gentiles, and with the message concerning confession of Christ as their Messiah.

• Matthew 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
• Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
• Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Have you noticed the many times Paul says "as it is written" or simply quotes passages from the prophetic books in order to upbraid his kinsmen in the flesh, Israel as to what they missed? The next verse is another example demonstrating to his brethren that they missed their Messiah.

• Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Paul is quoting Old Testament passages showing them Jesus is their Messiah being presented in their books, in this case, the book of Isaiah.

• Isaiah 28:16 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

Paul is without a doubt addressing Israel concerning their prophetic program with Christ seated on David's throne in Zion. No where in this passage beginning from Romans 9:1 has Paul presented the gospel of 1ST Corinthians 15:1-4, instead, Paul is speaking their language and addressing their problem being they missed their Messiah and their need to make a decision. That decision would be to accept Jesus as their Messiah. The next verse throws a lot of folks off since it says "Greek" but we must remember there were also Gentile proselytes into the nation Israel such as Cornelius in Acts chapter 10.

• Romans 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.

I want to stop here before going to the verse in view from the original post, that being Romans 10:13 because that is the verse the Pastor uses to demonstrate how a soul is saved today. What a mess we can make out of our Bibles if we do not pay attention to who is speaking, to whom are they speaking, and do we fit in the audience spoken to. If we fail to heed to those instructions, we can easily demonstrate that salvation would be by works, keeping the commandments or any number of things. It is so important to get it right, your never dying soul relies on your getting it correct. I'll pick up in verse 13 of Romans 10 as I proceed with this commentary next time. Grace and Peace!

Responses So Far...

To to be honest, I was not looking for any positive responses regarding the series I began a week or so ago examining a teaching point being delivered to Discovery Church from their Pastor Jason Ebeling. What I was expecting was more of a defence to the issue on the table, the doctrine. Of course, many people emailed me saying I was mean, low, attacking their preacher. On one comment, I was referred to as a blog stalker and implied I did not have a heart for God and others, and the sort, never once mentioning what the whole post is about, the doctrine. In any of my posts, I never once called anyone, the Pastor, or any attendee of this church a derogatory name such as stupid, dump, idiots, the whole post is directed at, the doctrine. So, the problem must be twofold as I can see it.

First, the responders do not understand the use of the word Ignorant, instead believing I said they were all boneheads over there, which is not the case. Ignorant from the root word "Ignore" means to simply be missing some information or are choosing to dismiss some information Even the corrupted text of the NIV contains the word "Ignorant" so these folks should be familiar with the language. Secondly, the responders are more interested in a person instead of what matters most, which would be, the doctrine.

I was referred to as a "jerk" on the Discovery Church blog by someone that is active in ministry in my area claiming to be on a mission to see the restoration of the Kingdom to Israel (the tabernacle of David) as set forth in Acts 15. What are the chances this person is preaching Christ according to the revelation of the mystery, or making all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery?, but rather they are engaged in an activity God himself has set aside for this present dispensation of the grace of God? But without controversy, the most amazing response is on the blog of the Pastor. Pay attention to what this responder is defending, it is not , the doctrine!

Dean, I'm sorry, but please stop. You might not approve of our pastor or disagree with his theology or even think he is a heretic. That's fine. However, even if he's completely wrong, an ignorant brethren (as you called him in your blog), or not even a Christian, for you to use this as an opportunity to to try and tear him down is just low and mean. I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish by acting this way, but it's not appreciated by any of us. Maybe that will make you happy or maybe you'll use this as fodder for your blog to point out how we are all blinded by the tainted doctrine he's spewing from the pulpit or something, but none of us put any respect into the hurtful ways you choose to make your points.

This, like every responder so far has defended the Pastor and not, the doctrine. I know, it's not popular to actually be a Bible believer, or use the scriptures as they are intended to be used as 2ND Timothy tells us in....

• 
  2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


• 2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Doctrine, reproof, correction, for instruction in righteousness. Doctrine schmoctrine. Reproof, can't have that. Correction, no way, we can't offend the tithers. Instruction in righteousness, that one's okay as long as we follow Jesus. Burger King was not the first to offer a "have it your way" menu, churches have been operating that way for way too long. Perfect, furnished unto all good works cannot be accomplished until you get the doctrine right, and that requires reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness. But who cares about the doctrine? Do you?

Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren and The F-Word (part 3)

If you have read the original post entitled The F-Word (part 1), and then look at my commentary on the error in the teaching being presented on the topic of forgiveness, you will come to the same conclusion I am realizing as I continue this series....this is going to take quite a while due to the fact the Pastor uses so many verses that have absolutely nothing to do with anyone that has been alive for the past 2000 years. I may not choose to comment on part 2 and part 3 of Pastor Jason's blog post due to the amount of posts and time it would require to do an adequate job in demonstrating what is obvious to anyone that understands right division. You know, it is easy to do a word search in a Bible program , in this case the word is forgiveness, and then believe every time the word is mentioned it is right doctrine for yourself without taking into consideration as to when it was spoken, who is speaking, and to whom is the speaker speaking to. Clearly, that is the case with this Pastor's post, never considering the above mentioned criteria. Let's see to whom Jesus, while in His earthly ministry was speaking.

• Matthew 15:24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
• (instructions to His disciples) Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
• John 1:11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
• John 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
• Luke 1:69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
• Romans 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

That is just a few, but if you believe your Bibles, you MUST believe Jesus only came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel in His earthly ministry. If you do NOT believe that, well, you will never get your Bibles right. I say that from experience and have no fear of contradiction. Let me get back on track now in the original post where the Pastor says....

Since that's the case, we know that all who call on the Lord will be saved, they'll be forgiven,

That is in the Bible, but that is not spoken to us. That portion of scripture is from Romans 10:13 saying...

• Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The speaker is the Apostle Paul, but to whom is Paul speaking. The Apostle Paul is indeed the Apostle given the information by the risen Lord Jesus Christ for us in this present dispensation of the grace of God, but Paul does not always address only the body of Christ. For example....

• Romans 2:17 Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God,

So when we approach the verse in Romans 10, we must determine to whom is Paul presenting the material. We can find the initial presentation beginning in Romans 9 where the Apostle Paul begins this material saying....

• Romans 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,
• Romans 9:2 That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart.
• Romans 9:3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
• Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

Paul's brethren, his kinsmen according to the flesh, Israelites. Is it me, or is Paul speaking to Israel here? Continuing on...

• Romans 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

Did Paul just say that Christ came in the flesh for Israel? Kind of sounded like Romans 15:8 once again.

• Romans 9:6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
• Romans 9:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
• Romans 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

My, can there be any doubt to whom Paul is speaking? I am not going to post the whole chapter because that would take to much space and people tend to lose interest. Every verse in chapter nine has Israel's address all over it, and not only chapter 9, the material being presented continues in chapter 10.

• Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
• Romans 10:2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
• Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
• Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
• Romans 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Seeing a pattern yet? Paul names the audience as Israel, also pay attention to the little words also such as "they" and "them". Words mean stuff and in this case they and them ain't us, it's Israel. I am going to stop here as we approach the scripture in question which is Romans 10:13. Digest what has been presented so far and I will pick up in Romans 10 about verse 6 next time. If you do not see with clarity to whom this passage is intended, read it again, it screams off the page having Israel's address all over it. Romans should be the first book taught to a new believer, if it was, we wouldn't have all the problems in the church machinery as we do today. Until next time.....Grace and Peace!!

Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren and The F-Word (part 2)

This next section concerning the topic of "forgiveness" in the original post authored by the Pastor of Discovery Church is without a single doubt the root cause of the error in doctrinal understanding not only this church, but every church that fails to rightly divide the word of truth. Firstly, the Pastor states that for this series covering the topic of forgiveness, they are setting up "base camp" in Psalms 32. To base the teaching series on the Old Testament doctrines given to a nation under their covenant, under the law, before the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, before the dispensation of the grace of God, before the revelation of the mystery was known by anyone alive at that time......well, how can I say this without being hard? I'll just say it would be likened unto starting a race facing the wrong direction. It would be difficult if not impossible to end up in the right place. And as we continue, the direction never changes but stays exactly where it begins...in the doctrines associated and directed solely to the nation Israel under their covenant. To make this a little easier, I will re post this next section here for a quick reference.





That promise is available, but not guaranteed. This was by far the most troubling thought for many - that forgiveness is conditional. Look at Ephesians 4:32 where Paul writes "Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you" Our forgiveness of others (believers here) is to be modeled after God's forgiveness of us through Christ. Since that's the case, we know that all who call on the Lord will be saved, they'll be forgiven, but there are some who call, who won't repent, who won't believe and they won't be forgiven. Not because forgiveness wasn't offered, but because the conditions weren't met.





Did you see the conditions to be saved in that paragraph? Calling on the Lord, repenting, and believing. That all sounds good doesn't it? But is it right? Here lies the problems. First, No scripture directs us to "call on the Lord to be saved". Second, the word "repent" means to have a change of mind and does not speak to lifestyle modification as implied in the above paragraph. Third, "believe" is not specific, believe in what exactly? I would lean to the thinking the use of word "believe" would be referring to the belief in Jesus rather than believing, trusting and placing your faith in the Gospel of the grace of God wherein Jesus died for our sins, was buried and rose the third day which constitutes the Gospel as set forth by the Apostle Paul in 1ST Corinthians 15:1-4. If the uses of the word "believe" in the original post does indeed refer to the Gospel, than, the Pastor is saying that the finished work of Christ is insufficient and there is a list of work we must do to seal the deal. Either way you look at it, it is disturbing, even to the point of preaching another gospel.

Since there is a great deal of material to cover from that paragraph, there is no way to handle it in just one response, therefore, let's look at the scripture which was quoted, Ephesians 4:32 and next time I will handle the scripture which was NOT quoted but was suggested in the saying "calling on the Lord" which is Romans 10:13 and we will wee how that works out.

• Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

So from this great verse, can you tell for what sake we are forgiven? Is it for YOUR sakes? Could it be for the sake that there was a confession? How about for the sake since there was a change in lifestyle? Do you forgive others for their sakes seeing they came and asked for forgiveness? If my English teachers were correct, and I think they were way back then, the verse clearly says, we forgive as God forgave us, for Christ's sake. Isn't that fairly simple? Why and how could you make it anymore than what it so plainly says, we forgive for Christ's sake. Did not Jesus die for the forgiveness of ALL of our sins? Does the blood shed on Calvary's cross have the efficiency to forgive ALL of our sins or was it insufficient?

• Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
• Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Where is the forgiveness of sins? Is it in asking for it? Is forgiveness found in repenting as it is commonly used to mean a change in direction or lifestyle? Could this mean forgiveness is settled when you call on the Lord, or as the Pastor seems to imply, when someone comes to you and asks for forgiveness? I think not! It's in the blood that was shed ONCE nearly 2000 years ago settling once and for all the issue of forgiveness, for Christ's sake.

• 2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Why does that verse say that God is not imputing trespasses unto us? Because God is not imputing trespasses unto us. God imputed them unto Jesus Christ on Calvary's cross. If I am not mistaken, that didn't happen yesterday or last week, it was nearly 2000 years ago and remains in effect unto this day. You certainly wouldn't expect Jesus to come back and die on the cross again and again and again would you? He did it once, for all. The reconciliation was put in place, you get in on that reconciliation when you place your trust and faith in what Christ did in His death, burial and resurrection. The issue is no sins, the issue is the Gospel of Christ, the power of God unto salvation. To tie this all together with where we started in Ephesians 4:32, our forgiveness of others is suppose to be based on the very fact that God forgave us for Christ's sake. So we are to also forgive others for Christ's sake. They do not have to earn our forgiveness , nor do we have to earn our forgiveness from God. If you hold to the belief system including turning from your sins to be saved, calling on the Lord, enduring unto the end, and whatever else you attach to the Gospel of the grace of God, the scripture is clear in Galatians 1:7 declaring that you are perverting the Gospel, in verses 8 and 9 declaring what you are doing is accursed. It is time to get it right, better yet, get it rightly divided and quit blending the doctrines of law and grace, prophecy and mystery, Israel's covenant doctrines with that given to Paul for usward, the doctrines of the grace of God in this present dispensation of the grace of God. We do not accept Christ, He makes us acceptable in the beloved by His grace.

• Ephesians 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

I hope I have made my point. If not, I'll take another swing at it next time as I pick up in the same paragraph where the Pastor of Discovery Church says "we know that all who call upon the Lord will be saved" which is in Romans 10:13. If I keep taking swings at the material I am bound to make contact at some point and this will all make perfect sense to someone wherein they will respond saying "why didn't I see this sooner" Until next time, Grace and Peace!

Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren and The F-Word (part 1)

This post is a commentary based on the blog from the Pastor of Discovery Church in Winterville, NC. in which he tackles the subject of forgiveness in a 3 part series. This is not a personal attack on anyone involved with this establishment, the fact is I have never met anyone even remotely connected to this church . The issue being discussed here is doctrinally based alone. As sure as I am writing this, someone from Discovery Church will take this personally and never consider what is being presented in order to demonstrate the error in their belief system which needs corrected, even saying something like "we must be doing something right" because we are being attacked or criticized. That approach to a serious matter such as forgiveness is not only sophomoric but is just silly. You can agree or disagree with what is about to be presented, I only ask that you consider what I say first before you come to any defensive conclusion based upon friendships or association.

• 2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Before getting started , I recommend going here and read part one of the series entitled the "F-Word" so you will have an understanding to the material being presented in this commentary.

Now, if you read the original post, or if you have it onscreen, take note of the first mention of scripture being referred to as the base camp, Psalms 32. Ask yourself this, is the church, the body of Christ mentioned in Psalms 32 or any of the other 149 Psalms? Does David mention the dispensation of the grace of God anywhere in the psalms? How about the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation? Does Psalms 32 speak to our sins being imputed to Jesus Christ on Calvary's cross? Does David make mention of any people other than Israel in a positive manner? Does David mention the blood of Christ being beneficial for forgiveness? Then what is David talking about? Let's see.

• Psalms 14:7 Oh that the salvation of Israel were come out of Zion! when the LORD bringeth back the captivity of his people, Jacob shall rejoice, and Israel shall be glad.
• Psalms 22:3 But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
• Psalms 22:23 Ye that fear the LORD, praise him; all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel.
• Psalms 25:22 Redeem Israel, O God, out of all his troubles.
• Psalms 59:5 Thou therefore, O LORD God of hosts, the God of Israel, awake to visit all the heathen: be not merciful to any wicked transgressors. Selah.
• Psalms 73:1 Truly God is good to Israel, even to such as are of a clean heart.
• Psalms 135:4 For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.
• Psalms 147:19 He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel.

You can close your eyes and jump in the book of Psalms anywhere and hit on to whom the Psalms are written to and concerning. It doesn't take a scholar to see that Psalms is written about the nation Israel and not the body of Christ. It is difficult at best to end in the right place if you are starting in the wrong place. In Biblical exegesis, it is impossible to do and at the same time retain scriptural integrity without twisting and wresting scripture and doctrine. So, as we start this commentary a major problem has surfaced. The failure to "rightly divide" the word of truth is not optional, it is vital in getting it right.

• 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It requires study, and in this passage you can see it also is noted in the word "workman" as work. It isn't easy at first, until you see the clear doctrinal distinctive and purpose associated with the two, Israel and the body of Christ. The lack of study is one obstacle to overcome, another obstacle is what Paul refers to in 2ND Corinthians 4:3-4 saying....

• 2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
• 2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Doctrine doesn't mean anything to a lost person. It is impossible to have a doctrinal discussion with someone that hasn't been saved and it is useless to try, it would be like explaining the color blue to a blind man, you cannot do it. You cannot say it is like the color of the sky when they haven't seen the sky. The god of this world, Satan, is not engaged in sin encouragement ie "the devil made me do it " mentallity, Satan is engaged in doctrinal issues as seen in ....

• 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Am I saying the Pastor of Discovery Church isn't saved? Well, according to the post entitled "F-Word", why would I believe he is saved at all? As you read his blog, you see in the third paragraph him equating salvation with calling on the Lord. But, we will look into that as this commentary continues in my next post. I will leave this one where it is and pick up on his use of Ephesians 4:32. Let me say this in ending, I am not judging one's salvation fore I also am not capable of passing the sentence, but I can discern from a person's own words as to what they are trusting for their salvation, and this Pastor hasn't indicated anything other than confusion pertaining to salvation as it is activated in this present dispensation of the grace of God. Keep checking back as I will endeavour to demonstrate the rightness of Mid Acts dispensational right division of the authorized KJB. Grace and Peace!

Discovery Church or Ignorant Brethren?

Did I just call Discovery Church the Ignorant Brethren? You could say that I did, but I wasn't the first. The Apostle Paul made the same statement to those who are ignorant of the revelation of the mystery, the dispensation of the grace of God given him through Jesus Christ. In Romans 11, the Apostle Paul, speaking to his kinsmen in the flesh explains to them that their favored nation status, according to their covenant, has been set aside.

• Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel today has no standing, they have stumbled, blinded and have fallen. Salvation has now come to the Gentiles.

• Romans 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

So does this mean the Church, the body of Christ has replaced the nation Israel? No, not at all. The church which is His body is not a nation, is not "born again" Israel receiving their New Testament, we are something totally different with a different purpose. We are the "new creation" and not something "born again" Something that is "new" cannot be the same as something that is "again". That should be so easy to understand and yet it goes right over every one's head, especially those who have the red ink of the OT books of Mathew, Mark, Luke and John all over their fingers.

• 2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Old things are passed away would not be you having stopped cussing, smoking 3 packs of cigarettes a day and having that Budweiser after work, although I don't believe those things are good ensamples of someone that is Christ's ambassador. The old things passed away would be referring to Israel, the law, commandment keeping, sabbath observing, tithing, and the other statutes God had put in place for Israel according to their covenant. The next verse should tie the rag on the bush saying:

• 2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Certainly, your bad habits were not of God. It could only be the things associated with the nation Israel seeing they have stumbled, blinded and have fallen. So what does all of this have to do with Discovery Church? Easy. If you are instructing your people according the OT doctrines associated with Israel's covenant concerning their "kingdom at hand" Gospel, you would qualify yourself as the "ignorant brethren" of Romans 11:25. And that is exactly what is going on in this institution called Discovery Church in Winterville, NC. The pastor of this establishment has posted a 3 part series on his blog entitled "The F-Word" dealing with forgiveness. The approach this Pastor takes is not uncommon for someone that thinks their marching orders come from the red letters. The belief that you can go anywhere in the Bible for doctrine is not surprising in any way, but it demonstrates the failure to distinguish that the Bible is progressive in revelation and does not have the same instruction for every audience at all times. The next few posts will be dealing with the posts by http://www.jasonebeling.com/ on his blog where I will be demonstrating the dangerous doctrine being taught in this church. It will be presented not only to warn ,but also as a teaching tool to show the rightness of Mid Acts Pauline dispensational right division of the authorized King James Bible.

• Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: