Before I begin this short post I have to confess, I found these statements on a Pastor's blog from a church in my area. Ok, I am being honest and upfront and am not making this stuff up, it's actually there for everybody to read. I am not going to re-post the entire piece, but am going to take excerpts and respond to each point. You make the call. This begins with the Pastor's feelings against the opposers to his belief system.
These people have a deeply felt belief that they need to be against anything and everything that doesn't fit their understanding of the Bible, God and the teachings of Christ. They are right, all others are wrong.
Let's just accept everything then because there certainly cannot be a right understanding and a wrong understanding. Let's just start singing Kumbayah and invite the Mormons, the Catholics, the Jehovah's witnesses and all the other cults that have a little bit of Jesus in them because there are no absolutes. Is there a right way to read, study and understand the Bible? Of course there is and God tells us how to achieve the right understanding. In the 2nd chapter of Timothy verse 15, Paul tells us.to...Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly dividing the word of truth! The only other option would be to wrongly divide the word of truth. So, if you are NOT rightly dividing the word of truth as God instructs us....what can I say...you are WRONG! Also notice the phrases..."approved unto God" and "needeth not to be ashamed" . If you fail to heed to rightly dividing the word of truth, it is shameful and is not approved unto God. Ouch...that stung!
If they think a certain translation of the Bible is right - all others must be wrong and so they oppose them.
Well, can they ALL be correct? This one is mindboggling. I can find over one hundred different so called translations of the Bible on Biblegateway and I know at least one they don't have listed called the "Black Bible" seriously, that is what it's called. Not only is it a pathetic attempt of corruption, it is embarrassing to my black brothers in Christ. Let me give the feel of that so called Bible...it begins with.."Yo brothers, In the start, the big man upstairs got His jive on and ....and so on. ..you get the drift. Is that acceptable? I don't think so. If the book you hold as God's word has as little as one mistake in it...would you still call it God's word, the Bible? If you think it could have one mistake, why not two or three?..where does it end? Is God old now and not capable to preserve His word? If you think it has mistakes in it, how do you know what you are trusting for your salvation is not also a mistake?.hmmm. I have heard this statement made before so I am not going to claim authorship, and it is ..."if any Bible will do, then no Bible can be true"..The reason that statement holds true is because there are no two translations that agree from beginning to end, therefore, only ONE can be absolutely right. So, I don't come to this topic lightly, it is of extreme importance. Paul tells us that even in his time corruption was going on pertaining to God's words......2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. So it should be no surprise there are corrupted Bibles in the marketplace today. I have many of the corrupted translations and only one that is without as much as one mistake in it....the King James Version.....but you need to study that out for yourself and be fully persuaded in your own mind!!
If they think a particular denomination or style of worship is right, all others are wrong and they oppose them.
What can you say about this? Has someone failed to go to our final authority in ALL matters of faith and practice? Or is someone practicing in Burger King churchianity....have it your way? Is God instituting ecumenical ism? are there many ways and means of salvation? Is a little bit of truth and alot of error ok? If you' find a diamond ring in a dumpster, it is still a dumpster and not a jewelry store.
The same goes for theological issues - whatever conclusion they've reached is right and all others are wrong, so they oppose them. They aren't passive opposers, but active attackers who feel that exercising this spiritual gift is a God-given responsibility regardless of how they approach it.
Wow, are getting the same feeling I'm getting by these statements? Do you hear the wind blowing? Let's just forget all about doctrine, light the campfire, toast some marshmellows, hold hands and sing....Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah....Didn't Paul tell us we shouldn't be , well, let me post the verse....Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; didn't Paul beseech us to do something?.....Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.....hmmmm....but I guess that would just upset the apple cart so we shouldn't worry about that kind of stuff.....Baloney!!!!!..it is of the utmost importance to get the doctrine right...after all, that is what the judgement seat of Christ will be based upon according to 1st Corinthians chapter 3. It's all about the doctrine given to the Apostle Paul from the risen Lord Jesus Christ for usward in this present dispensation of the grace of God ,wherein we don't have a choice....it is the way God intended it and the way God is dealing with humanity now, and you know what, I'm confident God has it right, therefore, I am gonna do it His way!! This particular Pastor refers to these opositions as "spiritual gifts" and concludes with this statement.....
These people have a deeply felt belief that they need to be against anything and everything that doesn't fit their understanding of the Bible, God and the teachings of Christ. They are right, all others are wrong.
Let's just accept everything then because there certainly cannot be a right understanding and a wrong understanding. Let's just start singing Kumbayah and invite the Mormons, the Catholics, the Jehovah's witnesses and all the other cults that have a little bit of Jesus in them because there are no absolutes. Is there a right way to read, study and understand the Bible? Of course there is and God tells us how to achieve the right understanding. In the 2nd chapter of Timothy verse 15, Paul tells us.to...Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Rightly dividing the word of truth! The only other option would be to wrongly divide the word of truth. So, if you are NOT rightly dividing the word of truth as God instructs us....what can I say...you are WRONG! Also notice the phrases..."approved unto God" and "needeth not to be ashamed" . If you fail to heed to rightly dividing the word of truth, it is shameful and is not approved unto God. Ouch...that stung!
If they think a certain translation of the Bible is right - all others must be wrong and so they oppose them.
Well, can they ALL be correct? This one is mindboggling. I can find over one hundred different so called translations of the Bible on Biblegateway and I know at least one they don't have listed called the "Black Bible" seriously, that is what it's called. Not only is it a pathetic attempt of corruption, it is embarrassing to my black brothers in Christ. Let me give the feel of that so called Bible...it begins with.."Yo brothers, In the start, the big man upstairs got His jive on and ....and so on. ..you get the drift. Is that acceptable? I don't think so. If the book you hold as God's word has as little as one mistake in it...would you still call it God's word, the Bible? If you think it could have one mistake, why not two or three?..where does it end? Is God old now and not capable to preserve His word? If you think it has mistakes in it, how do you know what you are trusting for your salvation is not also a mistake?.hmmm. I have heard this statement made before so I am not going to claim authorship, and it is ..."if any Bible will do, then no Bible can be true"..The reason that statement holds true is because there are no two translations that agree from beginning to end, therefore, only ONE can be absolutely right. So, I don't come to this topic lightly, it is of extreme importance. Paul tells us that even in his time corruption was going on pertaining to God's words......2 Corinthians 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. So it should be no surprise there are corrupted Bibles in the marketplace today. I have many of the corrupted translations and only one that is without as much as one mistake in it....the King James Version.....but you need to study that out for yourself and be fully persuaded in your own mind!!
If they think a particular denomination or style of worship is right, all others are wrong and they oppose them.
What can you say about this? Has someone failed to go to our final authority in ALL matters of faith and practice? Or is someone practicing in Burger King churchianity....have it your way? Is God instituting ecumenical ism? are there many ways and means of salvation? Is a little bit of truth and alot of error ok? If you' find a diamond ring in a dumpster, it is still a dumpster and not a jewelry store.
The same goes for theological issues - whatever conclusion they've reached is right and all others are wrong, so they oppose them. They aren't passive opposers, but active attackers who feel that exercising this spiritual gift is a God-given responsibility regardless of how they approach it.
Wow, are getting the same feeling I'm getting by these statements? Do you hear the wind blowing? Let's just forget all about doctrine, light the campfire, toast some marshmellows, hold hands and sing....Kumbayah my lord, Kumbayah....Didn't Paul tell us we shouldn't be , well, let me post the verse....Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; didn't Paul beseech us to do something?.....Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.....hmmmm....but I guess that would just upset the apple cart so we shouldn't worry about that kind of stuff.....Baloney!!!!!..it is of the utmost importance to get the doctrine right...after all, that is what the judgement seat of Christ will be based upon according to 1st Corinthians chapter 3. It's all about the doctrine given to the Apostle Paul from the risen Lord Jesus Christ for usward in this present dispensation of the grace of God ,wherein we don't have a choice....it is the way God intended it and the way God is dealing with humanity now, and you know what, I'm confident God has it right, therefore, I am gonna do it His way!! This particular Pastor refers to these opositions as "spiritual gifts" and concludes with this statement.....
How frustrating and disappointing it is that people with these kinds of gifts are the ones that get the most attention in the church. They give us a bad name and give Christ a black-eye. And I'm sure there are others I missed. What are some of the "spiritual gifts" that you don't want?
Are you as stunned as I am? For someone to stand for truth is not the popular approach these days I guess. For someone to engage in study and come to the conclusion on things that are of absolute importance is frowned on by the ecumenical any old which a way movement because we surely wouldn't want to offend anyone now would we. Wouldn't it be a better thing to cause a little uncomfort now in getting someone straigtened out on some things rather than making them comfortable all the way to Hell?...hmmmm
Please don't think I am doing this to pick on someone, that is not the case. It is for the defence of the integrity of God's word, the doctrines associated with the Gospel of Christ and the defence of ministerial integrity. Do you confront error in the most important detail of anyone's life? Or do you start singing...Kumbayah? can't we all just get along?
Please don't think I am doing this to pick on someone, that is not the case. It is for the defence of the integrity of God's word, the doctrines associated with the Gospel of Christ and the defence of ministerial integrity. Do you confront error in the most important detail of anyone's life? Or do you start singing...Kumbayah? can't we all just get along?
I think it's only fair that you post a link to the entire post so people can read it in context don't you?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.jasonebeling.com/2009/03/spiritual-gifts-i-dont-want.html
And while you make many good points that I agree with and whole-heartedly support, it also seems that "thou dost protest too much." Apparently you're seeing a bit of yourself in my post even though you aren't the catalyst for the post in the first place. It's interesting that you pull all your quotes from the part on the "Spiritual Gift" of Opposition. Based on previous posts and comments I've read from you, I'm wondering if you'd be able to see yourself in some of the other gifts too (Justifying and Criticism come to mind)
But thanks for reading and commenting. I may not always agree with your conclusions, but that doesn't keep from considering them.
I was not going to link the post in order to save you the the embarrassment...apparently, you are not, so if anyone wants to visit your site, there it is!,,,since you made the suggestion, I think I will tackle the whole post here,,,please stay tuned. Oh, the troubling part of your so called gift of opposition would be if you were not equipped to discern whether what is being taught is sound doctrine for the new creature, the church the body of Christ or Covenant doctrine ained solely at the nation Israel from the OT books including Mathew, Mark, Luke and John. One is correct, the other is sorely incorrect and demands correction. As far as "protesting too much",, Is there a limit I am not aware of in standing against false doctrine?
ReplyDeleteI guess I keep coming back to what Christ prayed for before He went to the cross. He prayed for our unity...that we would be one... so that the world would see Him through us. I love your bible knowledge, Dean, and I love Jason's passion for the unchurched in Greenville. I would love it if you and Jason would get on the same page. There would no stopping what God could do in this area!! As for Kumbaya, I just want to say that I love campfires, camp songs, and S'mores!
ReplyDeleteIn John 17 Jesus prayed "Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me."
Surebeatsworking...Thanks for the comment. Please don't think in any way shape or form that I am "attacking" an individual, rather, the purpose is doctrinal integrity and ministerial integrity (which is based on doctrine). Jason, as I say in my last post may be the greatest guy in the world and I admire him in so many ways for the initiative in starting an assembly. It's all about the doctrine! Not only is it of the utmost importance to our soul's salvation, but just as important in all matters of faith and practice and doctrine is what the judgement seat of Christ is all about. (1st Cor 3)
ReplyDeleteAs to the actual Lord's prayer of John 17 ( not the disciple's prayer of Mathew 6), Like you said, it was before the cross in which Christ was praying for the "little flock" and the lost sheep of the house of Israel. Unity in the dispensation of the Grace of God is based on doctrine alone. There can be no unity at the expense of doctrine. I think if you read my blog awhile, you will start connecting the dots. I will do my best to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery which from the beginning of the world hath been made hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ.
Hey Dean... I don't know you, but it seems that you have a gift of teaching and studying God's word. You seem to be very smart and educated. Jesus said that in these end times there would be false teachers and even the elect would be deceived. Your passion to defend the truth of God's word is noble.
ReplyDeleteI think you would be more effective is helping people to see the truth if you were more sensitive to HOW you went about sharing it. I would imagine you have been on a life-long journey of understanding God and the Scriptures. You probably believe differently now than 10 years ago... or 5... or even 6 months, maybe. Realize that everyone is on that journey and you may have come to a realization of things that others have not.... and others may understand things that you do not.
God's word is a person... Jesus. He is the truth. Hold fast to him and do not sway in your belief... in HIM. Even an uneducated person without any ability to study can know Him and be saved. God wants our love more than our intellect. God bless!
Mathew,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response. Let me address a few points from your comment. First, teaching and studying are not gifts, teaching would be a desire, study is work as set forth in 2nd Timothy 2:15. Second, when Jesus spoke of the "last days", He was speaking to the exhalted nation, Israel concerning their impending tribulation, Daniel's 70th week, the time of Jacob's trouble. Jesus never as much as once made mention of the church, His body in this present dispensation of the Grace of God wherein we reside. It was hid from them, kept secret since the world began until revealed to one man, the Apostle Paul. When you get that right, everything else in your Bible lines up beautifully, just as God intended it to be understood. My passion to defend God's word is not a choice, it's who I am and should be the mandate for every saved member of the body of Christ.
When approaching people with the Gospel of the Grace of God, the audience determines the starting point, are they saved or are they not? Hence, I always get that established before continuing because it would be useless digging into doctrinal issues with an unsaved person. It would be like trying to teach a 2 year to drive a car when their feet don't reach the peddles. So my dealing with doctrinal and ministerial topics here have been directed to the elder and not to anyone else. If they are unable to address the topics, maybe they should not have been made public on a blog. If the Elder is yet a novice, he has placed himself in a dangerous position and the need for edification is demanded...hence, my approach. A challenge to get one thinking is always a good thing.
Do I understand God and the scriptures differently than I did 10 years, 5 years ago? Absolutely! If I had not wasted my time listening to Pastors and teachers and preachers who failed to rightly divided the word of truth as required for any reasonable understanding of the scriptures, I could have saved a whole lotta time. It has been a journey that could have been avoided and should be avoided. I;ve been around the block a few times.
God's Word is a person, indeed. God's written word is made up of words. Funny thing about words, they actually mean stuff. All of God's words are written for our learning, but not all of God's words are written TO us. When you get that sorted out and only then will you get it right.
God wants our love more than our intellect? Don't they go hand in hand? If you really love God, isn't it only natural to learn all you can about the object of your affection? Analogy...I love my wife. The love didn't stagnate when I first told her that, I wanted to know every facet of her being. I know what makes her smile, what makes her sad, what time she wakes and what time she sleeps. I know where her freckles are and the 2 white hairs which have recently come to the forefront of her 37 inch natural blond gorgeous head of hair. This could go on for weeks here, but you get the idea....I'll end it with what the most prayerful figure in the Bible has to say...Colossians 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Grace and Peace!!!